Timulty
Be careful what you say...
Reged: Oct 12 2005
Posts: 824
Loc: Fawcett City
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Okay, let's address this here, since I take you guys more seriously than the ones across the street. How do we define a comic book? You can't identify the first comic book without a exact definition. So guys, what's your thoughts?
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Old coinees never die, they wisen up and become comic book collectors!!!
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kelso
Goldcomics Reviewer!
Reged: Jan 30 2003
Posts: 939
Loc: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania USA
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Although there have been collections of comic strips in book form since the Edwardian Era (that's 1900-1914 to we Americans), the comic book as we know it didn't come into existance until - at the earliest - around 1929 when Dell Publishing tried to launch a tabloid size weekly called THE FUNNIES which contained original material. Although the book failed at the newsstands, it led to the development of such giveaway books as GULF COMIC WEEKLY and the book cited as the first "modern" comic book FUNNIES ON PARADE.
Then Maxwell Charles Gaines - an employee at Eastman Color - decided to put a 10 cent sticker on a few issues of a giveaway book entitled FAMOUS FUNNIES A CARNIVAL OF COMICS and left them at a few newsstands to see if they would sell. Fortuantely, the book sold out and he convinced the people at Eastman Color to print a trial issue of a book called FAMOUS FUNNIES SERIES ONE and sticker a 10 cent price on it. The book sold out and led to Eastman Color launching the comic book industry with the book FAMOUS FUNNIES (which was incidently a collection of reprints of some popular newspaper strips). The classsic anthology comic book as we know it didn't come into existance until Major Malcolm Wheeler-Nicholson's National Allied Publishing (now DC Comics) launched the title NEW FUN later retitled MORE FUN COMICS.
Hope that helps you, Timulty.
BTW; I might add that the first issue of BLUE RIBBON COMICS was a throwback to the early issues of such anthologies as MORE FUN COMICS and NEW ADVENTURE COMICS (later retitled ADVENTURE COMICS).
Edited by kelso (Wed Aug 30 2006 08:38 PM)
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pokey oakey
I was adored once too!
Reged: Aug 17 2003
Posts: 541
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While I understand that there is a whole evolution to the comic book up to it's present form, to me it started in the mid to late thirties with new fun being a good enough starting point.
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If it's not disclosed.....you're being hosed.
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Timulty
Be careful what you say...
Reged: Oct 12 2005
Posts: 824
Loc: Fawcett City
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I agree with you guys on this that the format and timing seem to point to the 30's. I believe that a big part of it would be the fact that it is a scheduled periodical. I mean, we all look forward to when a new issue of our favorite comic books comes out. "New Comic Day" is part of the whole experience. What do you guys think?
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Old coinees never die, they wisen up and become comic book collectors!!!
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kelso
Goldcomics Reviewer!
Reged: Jan 30 2003
Posts: 939
Loc: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania USA
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I for one agree with you Timulty. A large part of my experiance as a comic book collector - particularly when I stated collecting books as a kid - was waiting for the latest issues of my favorite titles to hit the newsstands and newsstores in my neighborhood. Even though occasionally, I had to go out on the road to get the latest books.
Edited by kelso (Mon Sep 11 2006 07:31 PM)
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pokey oakey
I was adored once too!
Reged: Aug 17 2003
Posts: 541
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I'd agree, since that was a big part of my life as a kid, waiting for those books. I think the modern era comic book started in the thirties and I am skeptical of people trying to hype 19th century pamphlets as the original comic book, to try and generate more value. But I'm the suspicious type anyway.
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If it's not disclosed.....you're being hosed.
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kelso
Goldcomics Reviewer!
Reged: Jan 30 2003
Posts: 939
Loc: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania USA
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I would view those Victorian Era (that's mid-to-late 19th Century to we Americans) pamphlets along with such humor magazines as PUCK, JUDGE, and the early LIFE as prototypes of comic books. I too feel that the comic book as we know it came into existance in the early 1930's with such giveaways as THE GULF COMIC WEEKLY and FUNNIES ON PARADE and din't become a going concern until FAMOUS FUNNIES was launched.
I also would view NEW FUN as a starting point for the classic anthology title. While the single themed title didn't come into play until late 1936 when the Comics Magazine Company (later known as Centaur Publications) launched DETECTIVE PICTURE STORIES (cover dated December, 1936) three months before the launch of the more celebrated DETECTIVE COMICS (cover dated March, 1937) by National Allied Publishing (now DC Comics).
Edited by kelso (Tue Sep 12 2006 11:36 PM)
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Timulty
Be careful what you say...
Reged: Oct 12 2005
Posts: 824
Loc: Fawcett City
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Nice this is some good input. People don't think of comics as a phenomena. From what I have seen and heard, Pulp and comics readership was tremendous by today's standards. People had their favorite pulp or comic and eagerly awaited each week, month, quater etc. And this is part of the whole "experience" per se.
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Old coinees never die, they wisen up and become comic book collectors!!!
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pokey oakey
I was adored once too!
Reged: Aug 17 2003
Posts: 541
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So I think it's safe to say that those early books are part of the evolution of comics but that the thirties and the depression era were the birthplace of the comic book.
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If it's not disclosed.....you're being hosed.
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Timulty
Be careful what you say...
Reged: Oct 12 2005
Posts: 824
Loc: Fawcett City
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It does make sense. Practicality forges invention.
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Old coinees never die, they wisen up and become comic book collectors!!!
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kelso
Goldcomics Reviewer!
Reged: Jan 30 2003
Posts: 939
Loc: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania USA
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Considering that the Depression Era was a time when Americans needed a cheap form of escapist entertainment, it was the right time for the comic book as we know it to come into being.
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pokey oakey
I was adored once too!
Reged: Aug 17 2003
Posts: 541
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Hey, have either of you guys read "The Amazing Adventures of Cavalier and Clay"?
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If it's not disclosed.....you're being hosed.
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Timulty
Be careful what you say...
Reged: Oct 12 2005
Posts: 824
Loc: Fawcett City
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Nope.
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Old coinees never die, they wisen up and become comic book collectors!!!
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kelso
Goldcomics Reviewer!
Reged: Jan 30 2003
Posts: 939
Loc: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania USA
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I have yet to read it myself. I heard that the book THE ADVENTURES OF KAVILIER AND CLAY won a Pulitzer Prize for literature.
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pokey oakey
I was adored once too!
Reged: Aug 17 2003
Posts: 541
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It did.... and it's a great book that starts at the beginning of the golden age of comics(when they first began)up to present time. It's a must read for all comic collectors. It also stands on it's own if you're not a collector or fan.
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If it's not disclosed.....you're being hosed.
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Shield
Administrator
Reged: Jan 27 2003
Posts: 1523
Loc: Worthington, Ohio
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I read approximately the first 1/3 of the book. I can't remember why I stopped reading it, but make sure you have a dictionary handy as it's full of $10 words. It's on the list of things to finish...
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Shield
Administrator
Reged: Jan 27 2003
Posts: 1523
Loc: Worthington, Ohio
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Hey Vince, do you consider Obadiah Oldbuck a comic book? The one from 1842? See CGC's golden age thread about it for more information.
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pokey oakey
I was adored once too!
Reged: Aug 17 2003
Posts: 541
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No. I feel it could be a precursor to the comic book, but not a comic book itself. I also think someones trying to manipulate the market with the argument that it's the first comic book.
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If it's not disclosed.....you're being hosed.
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Timulty
Be careful what you say...
Reged: Oct 12 2005
Posts: 824
Loc: Fawcett City
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Agreed. So,how do we define it? I like the pamphlet/magazine format, sequential art with balooned dialogue and published on a periodic schedule as parts of the definition.
Edited by Timulty (Wed Sep 20 2006 08:51 AM)
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pokey oakey
I was adored once too!
Reged: Aug 17 2003
Posts: 541
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Now that I don't know, since it's not that big an issue for me. I'm confident in my belief that comic books as they are known today, began in the early thirties and reached their true form in the mid to late thirties. I'm more interested in the market manipulation aspect of all this and am constantly amazed at how good people are at taking all the fun out of this hobby.
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If it's not disclosed.....you're being hosed.
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kelso
Goldcomics Reviewer!
Reged: Jan 30 2003
Posts: 939
Loc: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania USA
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I'd view Tophfler's THE ADVENTURES OF OBIDIAH OLDBUCK as more of a prototype graphic novel than as a comic book. Actually, it's such early British magazines of the early 1900's as COMIC CUTS, COMIC CHIPS, and FILM FUN and various European publications during that period that come off as prototypes of the comic book as we Americans know it. In fact THE FUNNIES was very much an American version of those magazines.
I still view that the comic book as we know it came into being during the mid 1930's and really began to come into its own during the mid-to-late 1930's. It was during that time that men like Harry Donenfield, Harry "A" Chessler, and Everett M. Arnold would enter the comic publishing field; setting the stage for the comic publishing boom that would emerge circa 1938-1939.
In fact, this site exists because Maurice Coyne, Louis Silberkleit, and John Goldwater got into the comic publishing business due to the comics publishing boom that occured during circa 1938-1939.
Edited by kelso (Wed Sep 20 2006 08:07 PM)
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Illiterati
The Indian banking system of forumites
Reged: Feb 25 2006
Posts: 238
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Quote:
Agreed. So,how do we define it? I like the pamphlet/magazine format, sequential art with balooned dialogue and published on a periodic schedule as parts of the definition.
I agree with most of that, but I don't think you should toss in qualities of the comic itself into the equation. As soon as you start adding aspects such as "sequential art with ballooned dialogue", you invite the opportunity for massive inclusion and even MORE massive exclusion of material that should or should not otherwise belong.
Basically, you simultaneously open the floodgates and slam them shut.
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Timulty
Be careful what you say...
Reged: Oct 12 2005
Posts: 824
Loc: Fawcett City
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I think, I am being right to the point.
Magazine/pamphlet format (Hard covers are out!!!)
Sequetial Are with Ballooned dialogue. (strips with captions are out)
Published on a periodic shedule --In a way, this leaves open Newspaper strips with ballooned dialogue such as The Spirit, That why I say parts of the definition not the whole.
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Old coinees never die, they wisen up and become comic book collectors!!!
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kelso
Goldcomics Reviewer!
Reged: Jan 30 2003
Posts: 939
Loc: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania USA
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I might also add multiple-page stories as well. Something that became far more common when comic book publishers began ultilizing more original material.
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Captain_Flag
G-Man Wannabe
Reged: Jan 31 2003
Posts: 146
Loc: Ocala, Florida
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Anybody know what happened to The Golden Years Comic Book Library, the site that was/is run by Steve Rogers (Captain America?) When I went to the last URL I had for it, it wasn't there anymore. Funny things is, I can still look up individual books (All-Amazing,All-Golden,etc.) but the main page, or home page, seems to have disappeared. Can anyone help?
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